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	<title>Comments on: The 14 Fundamental Principles of our Torah Tradition</title>
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		<title>By: barron</title>
		<link>http://www.torathmoshe.com/2008/06/the-14-fundamental-principles-of-our-torah-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-3808</link>
		<dc:creator>barron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 00:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shalom `alekhem Micha,

I apologize for the belated response.  

I remind you that all the &lt;em&gt;middoth&lt;/em&gt; (character traits) incumbent upon us fall under the Torah Commandment of &quot;lehidamoth bid&#039;rakhow&quot; --to imitate His Ways.  For details, see chapters 1 and 2 of hilkhoth De`oth.  Moreover, the mi3woth of &quot;le&#039;ehov re`im&quot; (to love one&#039;s fellows) and &quot;lo lisno ahhim&quot; (not to hate one&#039;s brother/sister Jews) are no less than Commandments FROM THE TORAH as well.   

I hope you can now you can see my point in Principle #8 as it was intended: halakhah INCLUDES the Laws of Character Traits.  The way Jews treat and feel towards one another is no less a part of of the &lt;em&gt;Berith&lt;/em&gt; --the halakhah-- than any other.  However, since that is not as clear to most people, I included Principle #12:  &quot;Rather, the Commandments must be practiced in a spirit of joy, and in a way that they influences one’s character, so that one fulfills them in a spirit of genuine goodness of heart.... [re-read the rest!]&quot;  

If that was your only bone of contention, I hope this clears the matter up, leaving no disagreement between us. 

With blessings,

Michael Shelomo Bar-Ron, Beth Midrash Ohel Moshe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalom `alekhem Micha,</p>
<p>I apologize for the belated response.  </p>
<p>I remind you that all the <em>middoth</em> (character traits) incumbent upon us fall under the Torah Commandment of &#8220;lehidamoth bid&#8217;rakhow&#8221; &#8211;to imitate His Ways.  For details, see chapters 1 and 2 of hilkhoth De`oth.  Moreover, the mi3woth of &#8220;le&#8217;ehov re`im&#8221; (to love one&#8217;s fellows) and &#8220;lo lisno ahhim&#8221; (not to hate one&#8217;s brother/sister Jews) are no less than Commandments FROM THE TORAH as well.   </p>
<p>I hope you can now you can see my point in Principle #8 as it was intended: halakhah INCLUDES the Laws of Character Traits.  The way Jews treat and feel towards one another is no less a part of of the <em>Berith</em> &#8211;the halakhah&#8211; than any other.  However, since that is not as clear to most people, I included Principle #12:  &#8220;Rather, the Commandments must be practiced in a spirit of joy, and in a way that they influences one’s character, so that one fulfills them in a spirit of genuine goodness of heart&#8230;. [re-read the rest!]&#8221;  </p>
<p>If that was your only bone of contention, I hope this clears the matter up, leaving no disagreement between us. </p>
<p>With blessings,</p>
<p>Michael Shelomo Bar-Ron, Beth Midrash Ohel Moshe</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Lindenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.torathmoshe.com/2008/06/the-14-fundamental-principles-of-our-torah-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-3222</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Lindenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shalom--

most of this I would agree with.  However, the statement that the travails that affected Israel are because Israel as a collective failed to fulfill the halacha is, I believe, misleading.  Why is this so?  In short, because it conflates and collapses distinctions within the halachic system itself--that is, between more fundamental misswoth and more auxiliary ones.  When discussing what led to the hurban, Hazal specifically point out that the people were involved in Torah and misswoth!  And yet, there was something not right in the basic middoth and derech eress of the people (sinath hinam) which in turn led to serious averoth.  Signicantly, Hazal in Masecheth Avoth single out certain misswoth as being fundamental causes for certain travails.  The picture one gets, from Hazal and perhaps even more so from the nevi&#039;im, is that the travails of the people were especially because of certain very particular misswoth, especially those between man and his fellow.  One could say that all this is another way of saying that the people didn&#039;t as a whole implement Torah properly, but using the term &quot;halacha&quot; instead of, simply, Torah, gives the impression it was about not fulfilling all the particulars expressed in Mishneh Torah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalom&#8211;</p>
<p>most of this I would agree with.  However, the statement that the travails that affected Israel are because Israel as a collective failed to fulfill the halacha is, I believe, misleading.  Why is this so?  In short, because it conflates and collapses distinctions within the halachic system itself&#8211;that is, between more fundamental misswoth and more auxiliary ones.  When discussing what led to the hurban, Hazal specifically point out that the people were involved in Torah and misswoth!  And yet, there was something not right in the basic middoth and derech eress of the people (sinath hinam) which in turn led to serious averoth.  Signicantly, Hazal in Masecheth Avoth single out certain misswoth as being fundamental causes for certain travails.  The picture one gets, from Hazal and perhaps even more so from the nevi&#8217;im, is that the travails of the people were especially because of certain very particular misswoth, especially those between man and his fellow.  One could say that all this is another way of saying that the people didn&#8217;t as a whole implement Torah properly, but using the term &#8220;halacha&#8221; instead of, simply, Torah, gives the impression it was about not fulfilling all the particulars expressed in Mishneh Torah.</p>
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